Orchid Observers Talk
Although the flowers look like a marsh orchid, the spotted leaves suggest some hybrid influence
yes
Isn't it an early purple?
common twayblade, the large leaves are the giveaway
looks like a lesser twayblade
a patch of common twayblades still in bud
seems to be a pale early purple
white common spotted
early purple
agree
looks like southern marsh
I'd favour Heath spotted more
Frog
The leaves look rather narrow and the lip too well marked for Southern Marsh
Why not just HSO?
It's one of the epipactis helleborines, probably green-flowered
rather a dense spike for a common fragrant
unlikely given the leaves are lightly spotted
very dark if it is
Bog
Alternatively a white heath spotted
looks like one
Common spotted
Autumn
Agree, the second image down is a fragrant whilst the other three are all pyramidal!
doesn't look like one
looks like white helleborine
again looks more like heath spotted
looks more like a heath spotted
yes, parallel pollinia
I think it's a white Common spotted
hard to see but looks more like a fragrant
It's an unusually pale man orchid
probably
agreed
looks like it
Yes
Frog orchid
Open flower shows parallel pollinia so lesser
Pyramidal, note the raised plates at the base of the lip
Pyramidal
Early purple
Yes, you can see the diagnostic raised plates at the base of the lip
Bit hard to see but looks like a dactylhoriza, probably southern marsh.
But central lobe doesn't project, incisions are relatively narrow and lip markings are just lines not loops. These two can be hard.
Looks more like an early marsh; unfortunately can't zoom up the images in the Talk section
Looks like Bog orchid
Looks like one
I think its probably heath spotted
Common twayblade
heath spotted
Agree
Probably
Looks like it
unusual for a SMO to have such a heavily marked lip
Birds-nest
a man orchid on its last legs
yes, early purple
common twayblade
Marsh helleborine
Heath Spotted
interesting pale green edge to the lip - var luteomarginata?
Did someone request a white Pyramidal?
var belgarum
Are these wild?
Sussex?
I'm assuming the image hasn't been roated as opposed to it's growing prostrate!
What an odd looking plant, doesn't really fit anything, pity you can't get a better look at the flowers.
This looks like Dune helleborine so outside the project
Many of my local HSOs look like this I think that hybrid, D x transiens, is almost impossible to distinguish.
?
This is Green-flowered Helleborine, unfortunately not on the required list
This looks like it could be D. x venusta, the hybrid between CSO and NMO
ID based purely on the colour of the 'blobs' visible!
Don't think this is an orchid.
This is Dark Red Helleborine
Probably D. x grandis
There are 2 different species here - a CSO and a Common Fragrant
Why not Heath Spotted?
Agree with Mike, the pollinia in the top, blurry pic, are wide apart at an angle
Looks like Southern Marsh to me - the big fleshy leaves and short squat flower spike. Southern Marsh sometimes grow in dry habitats
This is a helleborine sp in bud, so off limits
Possibly Pugsley's?
Yes, it's a Marsh helleborine
I wondered if this is a Pyramidal but something doesn't look right. Can't get a close enough view of the flowers
I tend to agree
Pity you can't zoom in on this one for a closer look
OMG this identifying lark just got a whole lot harder!
So what did you submit it as Roger (unfortunately we don't get to see that bit)?
Er?
I suspect a hybrid between NMO and one of the spotted orchids
Nice var albiflora
Yes, one plant on here I'd have liked to see in the flesh.
Could just be a well coloured Heath Spotted
Not really sure what this is, other than a Dact!
PS it's a Pyramidal!
The top photo shows a peloric form with no lip as such, just four sepals arranged in a cross. It also seems to lack a spur. Really unusual.
This is one of those intermediate Fragrants!
What a sad specimen.
Not sure about this, suspect it may be a hybrid, possibly NMO x HS?
This might be D x hallii (SMO x HSO) or even a very well marked HSO
Surely this is a Heath Spotted?
I suspect the flower colour is a photographic effect and it's a SMO
This looks like Early Marsh ssp incarnata
It's a Pyramidal
This could be D x venusta (NMO x CSO)
Agree it's probably a hybrid, parentage not so clear
The heavily pigmented leaves are a bit odd.
Although I've put Marsh Fragrant based on flower shape, could as easily be Common based on sparse spike
It's var ochroleuca
Very pale example
Interesting looking specimen!
I think this may be just a rather robust Fly but would be good to check
Odd shaped sepals?
Interesting lip pattern
Funny cause I put this down as pretty much a 'bog-standard' Southern Marsh
probably a back-cross based mainly on Southern marsh
var chlorantha
Flowers with a broken speculum and an unmarked lip seem to be 'in' this year
These are var belgarum
Probably the same site then, there's only one site on the Mendips as far as I know. What did Fred make of them?
PS its a dry hay meadow with lots of Heath Spotted.
As this is one of mine, they are normally considerded to be conopsea. Told you Frgarants would be a problem from photos!
Not a pure alba fuchsii, the pollinia look to be pinkish.
a magnificent var flavescens
Bit of a sad looking speciment
Lip shape seems to be aberrant on the one flower you can see properly, (but OK on the others?)
I'm in two minds as to which of the spotted orchids these are.
One of the butterflys anyway, not sure which.
Possibly leopard marsh?
I wonder if this is a hybrid; lip shape like southern marsh but spotted leaves
I agree that this is probably a dact hybrid
Sepals very pale
The heavily patterned lip suggests it may be the hybrid x grandis
Ah when you see the bottom image it becomes clearer - Common Spotted
Aberrant lip pattern
Bit of a punt on this one.
I think this is Broad-leaved helleborine, which isn't on the list.
Pity there aren't any photos of the leaves. Difficult!
All var aurita
Which are we trying to identify, the plants in flower or those in seed?
Not sure what this is!
Unfortunately when you go into the Identify function you just see the distant shot, not all three photos linked like they are here.
Probably not that unusual these quite sepaloid petals - my attention has been brought to three other examples this year.
Not sure what I'm looking at!
Lot easier when you see both photos!
This seems to be a var trollii, either that or a deformed lip
Looks like the leaves are lightly speckled? possibly not pure.
I wonder if these are all hybrids?
Southern Marsh ssp schoenophila, photographed at a known site.
There aren't any Common Spotted at the site. Try again Mike!
With such a heavily marked lip this could be a hybrid
I've opted for lesser as the buds are quite yellow
Not a dact, look at the long spur. It's a Fragrant.
It's an Early Purple orchid
Again VC as null?
Appears to be blank?
What an odd coloured specimen.
One of the Butterfies, not sure which one
These look to be a Dact hybrid
Ah, makes a bit more sense when you add the flower image. It's an etiolated Heath Spotted
This is Sword-leaved helleborine, which doesn't seem to be on the list?
Unusual lip pattern, and unuual to have white sepals. Presumably not this year?
It helps a lot when the photographer adds the identification to the photo!
That's rather rude about a nice looking Lady!
Possibly Man orchid in bud?
This isn't an orchid
There seem to be multiple copies of this
Nice colour combination!
This is Lady orchid
Not sure what this is.
You should have an earlier one from me as well. This was the 20th, there's another from 11th.
The flowers seem to be deformed
Lovely image
Lovely plants
One of the spotted orchids.
One of the butterfly orchids
Both green-winged, just two different colour variants side by side
There is nothing to suggest a hybrid influence, in particular there are no Common Spotted anywhere close by.
Just realised this is my image - I can assure you this is NOT x grandis. It is in a colony that I visit each year.
x grandis normally has spotted leaves and flowers later. Why isn't it a Southern Marsh?
Hard to see much details
Not sure this is an orchid?
Lovely var alba
Unusual lip pattern. Nice pics!
Top plant is an unusual colour for a Green-winged
Still a little pigment on the lip, even though the pollinia lack any
That's a big specimen!
Not at all clear what the white one is, can't really see the flower structure - is it some sort of mutant?
Although I've ID 'd this as a Birds-nest orchid, I'm not convinced, looks too white
Don't think this is an orchid
Broad leaves and white buds, Greater Butterfly?
Leaves look wrong for Green-winged, which normally clasp the stem. Not sure what it is though.
Although the flowers look like a marsh orchid, the spotted leaves suggest some hybrid influence
yes
Isn't it an early purple?
common twayblade, the large leaves are the giveaway
looks like a lesser twayblade
a patch of common twayblades still in bud
yes
seems to be a pale early purple
white common spotted
early purple
agree
looks like southern marsh
I'd favour Heath spotted more
agree
Frog
The leaves look rather narrow and the lip too well marked for Southern Marsh
Why not just HSO?
yes
It's one of the epipactis helleborines, probably green-flowered
rather a dense spike for a common fragrant
yes
unlikely given the leaves are lightly spotted
very dark if it is
yes
Bog
Alternatively a white heath spotted
looks like one
Common spotted
Autumn
Agree, the second image down is a fragrant whilst the other three are all pyramidal!
doesn't look like one
early purple
yes
looks like white helleborine
yes
again looks more like heath spotted
looks more like a heath spotted
Frog
yes, parallel pollinia
early purple
yes
yes
yes
I think it's a white Common spotted
hard to see but looks more like a fragrant
looks like one
It's an unusually pale man orchid
probably
agreed
agreed
looks like it
early purple
Yes
Yes
Frog orchid
Open flower shows parallel pollinia so lesser
Yes
Pyramidal, note the raised plates at the base of the lip
Pyramidal
Early purple
Yes, you can see the diagnostic raised plates at the base of the lip
Bit hard to see but looks like a dactylhoriza, probably southern marsh.
Yes
But central lobe doesn't project, incisions are relatively narrow and lip markings are just lines not loops. These two can be hard.
Looks more like an early marsh; unfortunately can't zoom up the images in the Talk section
Yes
Looks like Bog orchid
Looks like one
I think its probably heath spotted
agree
looks like it
agree
Common twayblade
heath spotted
Agree
Probably
Looks like it
Yes
agreed
unusual for a SMO to have such a heavily marked lip
Birds-nest
a man orchid on its last legs
Yes
yes
yes
yes, early purple
common twayblade
yes
yes
yes
yes
Marsh helleborine
yes
Yes
yes
Heath Spotted
yes
interesting pale green edge to the lip - var luteomarginata?
Did someone request a white Pyramidal?
var belgarum
Yes
Are these wild?
Sussex?
I'm assuming the image hasn't been roated as opposed to it's growing prostrate!
What an odd looking plant, doesn't really fit anything, pity you can't get a better look at the flowers.
This looks like Dune helleborine so outside the project
Many of my local HSOs look like this I think that hybrid, D x transiens, is almost impossible to distinguish.
?
This is Green-flowered Helleborine, unfortunately not on the required list
This looks like it could be D. x venusta, the hybrid between CSO and NMO
ID based purely on the colour of the 'blobs' visible!
Don't think this is an orchid.
This is Dark Red Helleborine
Probably D. x grandis
There are 2 different species here - a CSO and a Common Fragrant
Why not Heath Spotted?
Agree with Mike, the pollinia in the top, blurry pic, are wide apart at an angle
Looks like Southern Marsh to me - the big fleshy leaves and short squat flower spike. Southern Marsh sometimes grow in dry habitats
This is a helleborine sp in bud, so off limits
Possibly Pugsley's?
Yes, it's a Marsh helleborine
I wondered if this is a Pyramidal but something doesn't look right. Can't get a close enough view of the flowers
I tend to agree
Pity you can't zoom in on this one for a closer look
OMG this identifying lark just got a whole lot harder!
So what did you submit it as Roger (unfortunately we don't get to see that bit)?
Er?
I suspect a hybrid between NMO and one of the spotted orchids
Nice var albiflora
Yes, one plant on here I'd have liked to see in the flesh.
Could just be a well coloured Heath Spotted
Not really sure what this is, other than a Dact!
PS it's a Pyramidal!
The top photo shows a peloric form with no lip as such, just four sepals arranged in a cross. It also seems to lack a spur. Really unusual.
This is one of those intermediate Fragrants!
What a sad specimen.
Not sure about this, suspect it may be a hybrid, possibly NMO x HS?
This might be D x hallii (SMO x HSO) or even a very well marked HSO
Surely this is a Heath Spotted?
I suspect the flower colour is a photographic effect and it's a SMO
This looks like Early Marsh ssp incarnata
It's a Pyramidal
This could be D x venusta (NMO x CSO)
Agree it's probably a hybrid, parentage not so clear
The heavily pigmented leaves are a bit odd.
Although I've put Marsh Fragrant based on flower shape, could as easily be Common based on sparse spike
It's var ochroleuca
Very pale example
Interesting looking specimen!
I think this may be just a rather robust Fly but would be good to check
Odd shaped sepals?
Interesting lip pattern
Funny cause I put this down as pretty much a 'bog-standard' Southern Marsh
probably a back-cross based mainly on Southern marsh
var chlorantha
Flowers with a broken speculum and an unmarked lip seem to be 'in' this year
These are var belgarum
Probably the same site then, there's only one site on the Mendips as far as I know. What did Fred make of them?
PS its a dry hay meadow with lots of Heath Spotted.
As this is one of mine, they are normally considerded to be conopsea. Told you Frgarants would be a problem from photos!
Not a pure alba fuchsii, the pollinia look to be pinkish.
a magnificent var flavescens
Bit of a sad looking speciment
Lip shape seems to be aberrant on the one flower you can see properly, (but OK on the others?)
I'm in two minds as to which of the spotted orchids these are.
One of the butterflys anyway, not sure which.
Possibly leopard marsh?
I wonder if this is a hybrid; lip shape like southern marsh but spotted leaves
I agree that this is probably a dact hybrid
Sepals very pale
The heavily patterned lip suggests it may be the hybrid x grandis
Ah when you see the bottom image it becomes clearer - Common Spotted
var belgarum
Aberrant lip pattern
Bit of a punt on this one.
I think this is Broad-leaved helleborine, which isn't on the list.
Pity there aren't any photos of the leaves. Difficult!
All var aurita
Which are we trying to identify, the plants in flower or those in seed?
Not sure what this is!
Unfortunately when you go into the Identify function you just see the distant shot, not all three photos linked like they are here.
Probably not that unusual these quite sepaloid petals - my attention has been brought to three other examples this year.
Not sure what I'm looking at!
Lot easier when you see both photos!
This seems to be a var trollii, either that or a deformed lip
Looks like the leaves are lightly speckled? possibly not pure.
I wonder if these are all hybrids?
Southern Marsh ssp schoenophila, photographed at a known site.
There aren't any Common Spotted at the site. Try again Mike!
With such a heavily marked lip this could be a hybrid
I've opted for lesser as the buds are quite yellow
Not a dact, look at the long spur. It's a Fragrant.
It's an Early Purple orchid
Again VC as null?
Appears to be blank?
What an odd coloured specimen.
One of the Butterfies, not sure which one
These look to be a Dact hybrid
Ah, makes a bit more sense when you add the flower image. It's an etiolated Heath Spotted
This is Sword-leaved helleborine, which doesn't seem to be on the list?
Unusual lip pattern, and unuual to have white sepals. Presumably not this year?
It helps a lot when the photographer adds the identification to the photo!
That's rather rude about a nice looking Lady!
Possibly Man orchid in bud?
This isn't an orchid
There seem to be multiple copies of this
Nice colour combination!
This is Lady orchid
Not sure what this is.
You should have an earlier one from me as well. This was the 20th, there's another from 11th.
The flowers seem to be deformed
Lovely image
Lovely image
Lovely plants
One of the spotted orchids.
One of the butterfly orchids
Both green-winged, just two different colour variants side by side
There is nothing to suggest a hybrid influence, in particular there are no Common Spotted anywhere close by.
Just realised this is my image - I can assure you this is NOT x grandis. It is in a colony that I visit each year.
x grandis normally has spotted leaves and flowers later. Why isn't it a Southern Marsh?
Hard to see much details
Not sure this is an orchid?
Lovely var alba
Unusual lip pattern. Nice pics!
Top plant is an unusual colour for a Green-winged
Still a little pigment on the lip, even though the pollinia lack any
That's a big specimen!
Not at all clear what the white one is, can't really see the flower structure - is it some sort of mutant?
Although I've ID 'd this as a Birds-nest orchid, I'm not convinced, looks too white
Don't think this is an orchid
Broad leaves and white buds, Greater Butterfly?
Leaves look wrong for Green-winged, which normally clasp the stem. Not sure what it is though.